This CRM class of software is classified as Enterprise software and not Consumer software. And whats the difference between the two classes?
I will limit it to two distinctions:
- Enterprise softwares have HUGE implementation base, running upto 100K seats even! Whereas consumer software is sold in smaller numbers, mostly in 10s.
- Enterprise software is bought by the CIO & "pushed" onto users. Consumer software is bought by individuals or smaller groups.
Who do you think gets more viewership? And what is the kind of viewership the two kinds of blogs get?
The consumer technology blogs are more akin to the dailies or at least like say the Chip magazine (pls put US equivant here) thats read by users of software. They reach a lot more people than say the CIO magazine which is mostly read by people who make the buying decisions of Enterprise Software.
As Robert Scoble tells us, Enterprise Software is not sexy! (But please do read Vinnie's response too!)
Don´t you think I´m SEXY?
Image Credits: http://www.worth1000.com/contest.asp?contest_id=19102
Image Credits: http://www.worth1000.com/contest.asp?contest_id=19102
Now most Social Media folks come from the earlier category (both authors as well as readers). Apprently they get their knowledge of CRM from what news strays into mainstream media or the receptacle of all wisdom - Wikipedia - since most prominent bloggers with most readership dont write about enterprise software.
So when social media experts (I mean real experts, not merely proponents or those who claim to be but can't prove as one) say that social media tools like Twitter can transform into CRM based on what visibility/insights they have had into CRM, everybody starts repeating is as a chant, without really understanding the depth of the matter.
(Slightly OT: I guess Twitter does a great job of creating small enough headlines & the RT-ing permeates the small headlines, which then gets transmogrified into a mantra like chanting. A mantra is essentially some small word or phrase chanted repeatedly.)
Thankfully some of the social media experts recognize the need to make CRM & Social Media fall in love & marry them off, like many of us in the Social CRM buddy group do.
Wish more such collaborations happen between the social media & CRM experts, especially those who understand that Social CRM should not be lead the way of traditional CRM.
Finally, a few thoughts about what should happen to CRM (without getting too hung up on the nomenclature - call it CRM 2.0/Social CRM/SRM/SR/Whatever):
From trying to "control" the customer experience, CRM will have to shift to "providing" customer experience & "enabling" collaboration on multiple levels by "participating" in conversations with the customers across various new social media channels and new locations on the online socnets/communities.Do you think the above can help the Social Media folks & other CRM unintiates "get" it? What simpler way would you put it across to them? Please do let us know. :)
The businesses that understand the above need & incorporate it will come out winners, the rest will become whiners since they will be forced to incorporate those changes. Because of the onslaught of the technologies that are putting the power into the hands of the customers.
The new stuff will be about engagement, collaboration & co-creation with the customers by the business.
Social CRM is the peace pipe from businesses to customers armed with social media & VRM (vendor relationship management, which Paul equates to the Labor Unions!). But rather than pitting against each other, Social CRM should be able to bring together all the parties in a business ecosystem for collaboration & co-creation. It is no longer only business to customer but also the other way as well as customer to customer too.
A lot of clarity arises (at least for me) if we consider the M is CRM as "organize" rather than "control" over C, R or CR.
Short answer: as long as CRM continues to look down at SCRM or SM as if it had "koodies", then nothign can make them work together. it is time for CRM snobs and enterprise software snobs to figure out that the "new" stuff needs to be integrated and it is also time for the SM and SCRM people to stop saying that it is easy to do.
ReplyDeleteIt is neither easy, nor fun. But it must be done... and it takes two to tango. So, as long as CRM and other enterprise software people can look beyond what they have and begin to find ways to integrate it, then we shall succeed.
Good luck to all of us in doing that.
Thank you for the comment Estaban :)
ReplyDeleteFrankly I had to look up "koodies" on urban dictionary ;)
I do not know of which people you are referring to, but personally I do not think that either social media is easy or insignificant!
We have an enormous task ahead if we need to integrate the two, not just technically, but also from the top level strategy perspective too.
We need a huge shift in mindset & that means a HUGE change management exercise!
Its not an easy road considering that CRM has left a bad taste in many a mouth & social media is seen as a risk in the enterprise currently!
I tried to comment in 140 characters, but the topic deserves more than that (plus my attempt did not drive the point as well as it could).
ReplyDeleteAs both of you seem to be suggesting, there are two camps, approaching what might be the same problem, from two directions. One could say it is a left brain right brain phenomena.
Engineers v Writers
Programmers v Blogger
Marketeers v Sales (or Support)
When people think of CRM traditionally it is about data collection, information processing, Analysis, more tactical, some strategic
When people thing Social Media they think new age, transparency, Facebook, Twitter and sharing (the peace pipe that Prem likes to refer to)
So, my take has been that CRM is the technology enabler, needs to be a strong robust platform for the integration - but we need to take the requirements from the Social Media thought leaders regarding how to engage the community. CRM players, myself included are not as good at it as we would like to be, but we are fast learners.
The group having this discussion (Twitter and Blogs), I believe, are actually the few with a foot in each camp - we are the facilitators, the moderators, the ones with the open mind, it is our job to bring the camps together.
Y(*)asf34v
ooops, sorry, fell down getting off my soap box.
Mitch
Since the vast majority of people I've worked with in the CRM world look at me funny when I mention strategy, they will only look at "social" tools as potentially cool "tools" and they will sell them as such. Good luck.
ReplyDeleteThe CRM people who look at the technology as a facilitator of a strategy, I think, will be (are) looking for new ways to engage customers and expand their role in the process. These new ways will required supporting technology.
What CRM folk will fear is a social evangelist who attempts to push these transparency (I like that Mitch) tools because it will be very hard to assess, and control, the risk of doing this if it's not part of a larger program they have some experience with.
I get it that the landscape is changing. But my alarm bells went off when I saw articles, twits and blogs about tools like Twitter "becoming" the new CRM; as though SCRM was going to take over.
Like any good sale, the buyer discovers they need it. It's going to take awhile. And I know those on the Social side are going to be impatient because they know best :)
@mikeboysen
Mind the steps Mitch! :P
ReplyDeleteThats quite insightful - left vs right brain analogy. I like that & agree to that. Helps me in understanding the issue.
I read a piece on the pay-per-performance based advertising move by Coke recently. They said something on similar lines too.
I would like to build on your stand a bit further.
The software folks take requirements from CRM implementers, SM experts & the community and build platforms. We need 2 different set of developers here. CRM folks should not get too involved on the Social Apps end & neither should Social Apps developers remove their focus from meeting the community requirements & integration aspects with enterprise systems.
The CRM implementers would know which metrics helps the business, the SM experts would know which metrics helps building a vibrant community (Lithium's WP comes to mind here). SMM & SNA amalgamate with BI.
Dont bother about the titles of Community Mgr, CRM mgr, etc. Give the post to a CXO who gets both. Make a person the driver rather than a post.
Absolutely agree - we said as much at a recent seminar in London.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to manage your reputation & advocacy in the public ether, you simply must be leveraging social platforms.
Unsurprisingly, my piece concluded that you must And, to do that, you must access to relevant customer data (CRM) - both for understanding & tracking the information.
-= David
http://dpp.sagecrm.com/blogs/talking_about_customers/
Thank you for the comment David.
ReplyDeleteYes, I agree that integrating CRM with SocMed will allow for better ORM & Collaboration, Co-creation with the customers.
You might want to read this on my views about ORM & SocMed: Of Trust & Reputation in Social CRM.
Mike, I am at a loss, frankly. I have never gotten any funny looks & CRM is strategy was emphasized by almost all I've worked/interacted with! So don't really know how to respond to that.
ReplyDeleteRather, I would like to learn from you. Why do your clients give that funny look? What makes them feel squeamish about putting CRM in the same sentence as strategy?
Social Apps being considered as "cool tools" is a danger we should address effectively & properly. This means we should understand the people who think so. And I need your help in understanding them. :)
That being said, I hope social media gurus who have humongous number of followers really do chime in with their thoughts & collaborate with those who live and breathe CRM as well - not just for sake of 'mantras'.
ReplyDeleteMore posts, please (because some of us do have to argue our cases with execs :)
Best.
Alain
ScropFromHell, we work in different markets. Is your bread and butter 10-100 seat deals or 10,000+ seats? If you're with Cognizant, you're dealing with vastly more sophisticated clients with more experience in strategic thought. Oh, and they have much larger budgets as well, I'm sure.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying that middle market companies don't plan, but they have been trained by software sales people that the software is going to solve their problems, or that the real problem is one of efficiencies, not customer loyalty or value. Just the way it's been in the market I've operated in.
I'd love to see it change.
Thanks for pitching in Alain :)
ReplyDeleteYes, I would love for more exchange of ideas b/w Social Media gurus & CRM gurus. Paul Grenberg & Brian solis have shook hands.
Now its time for us to contribute our bit on the Ustream chat on Social CRM with Shane Gibson & co. :)
Thanks Mike. I guess I now begin to see what you mean.
ReplyDeleteYes, I would love to see it change too. But can't really begin to imagine what could help though. :(
Guess this is more Brent Leary's domain. :)
Mike, You bring up a great point in that companies think CRM will solve all that ails them. I've suffered through Onyx, Siebel, SFDC, Zoho, Highrise, "Outlook as a pseudo-CRM," Cardscan and ACT and 2-3 of these at more than one company...and none of them lived up to their hype. They all became an expensive calendar/task scheduler and tool that management used to beat salespeople over the head about the quality of their pipelines.
ReplyDeleteWhile I admit that CRM-type tools are needed to enable snapshots as well as deep-dives into the health of the organization I think the acronym, "Customer Relationship Management" is a huge misnomer because it's more like a "Close the Customer Hard So Management Can Get Paid Their Bonuses or CTCHSMCGPTB." (I guess CRM does roll off the tongue a little easier.)
If I am going to "manage the relationship with my customer" I need tools to help me automate and standardize my correspondence with them. Most companies conduct webinars & seminars, attend trade shows, produce white papers and application notes, have press releases and product upgrades. What are the 3 or 5 or 25 steps that can be built into a sequence that includes email, a letter, a postcard, a voicemail blast, a fax blast, a phone call every 1, 3 or 21 days to better "manage" that relationship?
You see, most enterprises haven't wrapped their brains around the idea that they must open up a two-way dialogue with their customers. And those that have realize it's hard to figure out what to say to them and it's even harder to say it well!
So they revert to beating the sales people for their pipeline update.
It took me 9 years to find that type of software that automates my marketing and what a difference it has made to my consulting business. I liked it so much I became a certified implementer and reseller of it.
So there is hope for the industry but not without change.
But that's true of life in general, is it not?
æLife is too short for follow up calls."
mike,
ReplyDeletejust because mid-sized companies are treated poorly by software vendors does not mean the people in there don't get it. they just don't have the resources.
i have seen many, many more implementations well done at the SMB level than at the large enterprise level. they usually know what they want, and they take the time to do it right. often without spending large sums in useless software.
tools and technologies are second to strategy, for anyone. the fact is that you can implement any strategy without tools in most instances, or leverage tools in many different ways.
you cannot transform a tool into a strategy, it is a loosing battle. and implementing without knowing leads to failure.
esteban
Wes, welcome to SFH! :)
ReplyDeleteWithout aligning the software to the processes, its a moot point to setup CRM software.
If software were the panacea the whole world would be building nothing but better software.
Esteban has elaborated on that much better than I could ever have. :)
Esteban,
ReplyDeleteI am very thankful for the nuggets. :)
However one doubt still refuses to get out of my brain. Why do the software vendors dig their own graves by pushing software over strategy?
Mike & Wes are right in their scorn of the software sales folks. It is very unfortunate that they have had to have such a bad taste of such good softwares that Wes has named.
Loved this post:) Have been chatting about similar insights with @sampad & @saurabh. Keep it coming:) Would love to catch up some day soon if in Mumbai or when I travel to wherever you are.
ReplyDelete